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Danny has spoken. That's me persuaded.
08 February 2018 15:00 Post ID: #778451 - in reply to #778369
100 Colin Alcide
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I notice a few from Vital were getting quite a lot of stick on the onefootball forum pages for the boycott (or lack of). My view is the only stakeholder in the process a Lincoln City supporters can really affect is their own club, that has happened, with Danny publicly backing no U21/B-team in the competition I'm not sure who or what else a boycott is going to influence enough to make a difference. Getting that public backing is actually a very big thing as other clubs have gone against their own supporters and still voted for it.

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08 February 2018 16:23 Post ID: #778470 - in reply to #778451
88 Freddy Simpson
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I really don't see why a compromise can't be reached with the U 21 teams. Let them play in the group stages, still use the results in the table, but don't allow them to progress. They get the experience but it still remains as a L1 & L2 competition. I know some people feel there is a bigger picture of these teams competing in the League. Does anyone really think that them competing in this competition will make the slightest bit of difference on this decision going forward?
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08 February 2018 16:40 Post ID: #778474 - in reply to #778369
90 Doug Graham
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"Does anyone really think that them competing in this competition will make the slightest bit of difference on this decision going forward?"

Yep, it's about money and how much they need to pay, this is step one in working out what the price is..
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08 February 2018 18:38 Post ID: #778497 - in reply to #778369
99 Billy Bean
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I think it speaks volumes about the man that he's thinking about this.

I'm with him, if you're one of our most passionate fans, not going to our first Wembley trip because of decisions made by football bureaucrats is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Boycotters: I agree with you fully on the integrity of football, but I'd not miss this for the world.
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08 February 2018 18:52 Post ID: #778509 - in reply to #778474
88 Freddy Simpson
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Sincilbanks - 8/2/2018 16:40

"Does anyone really think that them competing in this competition will make the slightest bit of difference on this decision going forward?"

Yep, it's about money and how much they need to pay, this is step one in working out what the price is..


If it is about about money and about how much the teams are going to sell out to, they don't need the competition. Surely they come forward with a figure, someone says no, then they come back with a higher figure.
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08 February 2018 19:32 Post ID: #778534 - in reply to #778509
90 Doug Graham
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abebaby - 8/2/2018 18:52

Sincilbanks - 8/2/2018 16:40

"Does anyone really think that them competing in this competition will make the slightest bit of difference on this decision going forward?"

Yep, it's about money and how much they need to pay, this is step one in working out what the price is..


If it is about about money and about how much the teams are going to sell out to, they don't need the competition. Surely they come forward with a figure, someone says no, then they come back with a higher figure.


Because they can't afford to put the EFL in the position of being seen to simply auction off their league, that's what it might be in practice but it can't be made to LOOK like that's what it is.
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08 February 2018 23:19 Post ID: #778669 - in reply to #778509
92 Ron Harbertson
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abebaby - 8/2/2018 18:52
If it is about about money and about how much the teams are going to sell out to, they don't need the competition. Surely they come forward with a figure, someone says no, then they come back with a higher figure.


Once upon a time (31 years ago) The European Cup was all about Champions vs Champions no matter how small your league or country was.

Then a lot of money was offered and bigger leagues got an extra auto place, smaller teams were bought off with guarantee of 6 group games which of course would guarantee them more chance of money on the caveat that they would have to qualify.

Then just 2 years later more money was offered for even more bigger teams being there automatically guaranteeing much more chance of some real money spinning ties.

Here we are in an era where our top flight wants their B teams playing the league, wants a winter break to appease the bigger clubs so they can have 2 money making global tours a year, they want the FA Cup moved to midweek and the big 6 are backed by the Premier League in their desire to be given a bigger slice of the PL TV revenue than the other 14!!! The latter showing that even the PL (see the UEFA example further down) is under pressure from the big 6 and is already trying to persuade the other teams to agree.

The PL WILL eventually reduce to 18 and it won't mean less games. The EFL will have no say or vote on that one despite the fact that it will impact them!!!

"It will never happen" is not really understanding how these things work. To say that ignores the formation and "evolution" of the league system itself since the game became such a money spinner.

It is all about money. You only need to take into account the tactics Liverpool used to "evacuate" the streets behind their new stand to get that through. The fans and the little man is irrelevant. The sales pitch of "We listened but this is for the good of the game" is what will win through IF we let it happen.

Better off letting that Big 6 threaten to leave and be part of some mundane Euro League. Call their bluff and say goodbye. And if they decide they can't back down on it then hey ho, Cheerio. There will be less money in the English game without them BUT each team will end up having a fairer share. The Premier League brand will be kaput and the remaining top flight teams will be praying for the Villas, Wolves, Leeds, Forests to get promoted again.

This B team thing is a very real threat and the U23 development sides in the EFL cup is just a foot in the door akin to the selling of the European Cup that used to give teams like Red Star Belgrade, Brugge, Malmo, Steaua.

"You'll never get to the final again however we'll give you more money and if you qualify you're guaranteed 6 money spinning games with probably 2 big teams at your ground. Deal or no deal (you have no choice.)

Last year under pressure the format was changed again. The proposal was that the top 4 teams of the top 4 ranked nations got automatic qualification to the group stages (no more having to qualify for them and what happened:

"In August 2016, UEFA announced changes in the access list of the tournament, driven to avoid the creation of European Super League. The top four clubs from the four top-ranked national associations will receive guaranteed qualification automatically for the group stage. The Europa League holders also will automatically qualify for the group stage.[56] However, the plan passed by UEFA caused outrage among smaller associations. After his election as the new UEFA president, Aleksander Ceferin said that he will review the new system.[57] In December 2016, UEFA confirmed the plan will go on."

How this works is not that the big clubs ask the small clubs. The big leagues make threats to the competition. The smaller clubs complain to the competition. The Competition has no choice but to cave into the big clubs because of the money.

The PL has a lot of cards here. "For the good of the game" they could decide they don't want to play in the league cup. They could decide that there should only be 18 teams in their league AND/OR only 2 (or 1 or none) relegation place. They could offer a vast amount more money seeing as the total they give to the clubs in TV and prize money totals over 2bn a year. What did they offer extra for entry into this? Remind me of that one. Pretty cheap for them but then goes back to what they did with the formation of the PL. They made the top flight a separate entity in command of all the big money. That left the league with the old ITV / ON Digital fiasco etc. L2 player wages are only now where they were in the late nineties!!!

Our pal Chris Sutton was the first £10k a week player in 1994 when he signed for Blackburn.
Remember the maons when Shearer signed for Newcastle in that same era on a wage of £15,000 (despite Bergkamp already being on £25k a week.

20 years on PL wages are 10x what they were while our current team's wages are no higher than our late nineties team which of course in real terms taking into account inflation means they are a lot lot less than then. £1200 in 1997 would be £2004 in 2016.

That is the effect of what the Premier League did when it separated from the league. It took all the money away with it and then told the FA to be happy with what they put back in. They still bang on about how much money they put into grassroots etc.

Eventually like the Champions League the big teams, especially the big 6 will get exactly what they want because the threat of them leaving means money gets risked and money is all that matters these days in everything. What you or I or small clubs or small leagues want is by the by.

Edited by GreenNeedle 8/2/2018 23:25
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08 February 2018 23:37 Post ID: #778676 - in reply to #778369
91 Jimmy Munro
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Plenty of food for thought there.

Good article........just the sort of chat that they are having over on Banter!

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09 February 2018 00:38 Post ID: #778695 - in reply to #778369
92 Ron Harbertson
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Just remember that the Premier League was (the then Managing director of LWT) Greg Dyke's idea. Was soley about taking more of the slice of the pie. Was originally called the FA Premier League until 2007 and was heavily backed by the FA.

Yet the FA chairmen said they have no power to counter the PL to parliament last season! One of those chairmen was the very same Greg Dyke who put the idea to the "big 5" as was back then (Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottingham and Everton) in the first place.

David Dein got the FA to back it and of course was also later FA Vice chairman as well as being an instigator of the G14 group of clubs that pushed UEFA into altering the CL format. He was President of that G14 group a decade ago!!!

People forget that the league that now says it wants a winter break and to reduce games wanted in 2009 to add a 39th game played around the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/12/football-associatio...

Edited by GreenNeedle 9/2/2018 00:48
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09 February 2018 02:59 Post ID: #778696 - in reply to #778470
On Loan
0
yes agreed. group stages but they are deleted from the table.
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09 February 2018 09:05 Post ID: #778733 - in reply to #778369
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The U21 sides are in the competition because not enough Clubs voted against.

They're not in or out depending on attendances, it's because Clubs lack the balls to vote against the likes of Shaun Harvey and the PL, whilst also going all weak at the knees for a little extra competition money.

Attendances have brought publicity to the issue, but will have no impact whatsoever on how the competition is run. There was a boycott last season - did it change the format this season? No. Why? Because Clubs voted for it.

If Clubs vote against it, it won't happen. That's the simplicity of it. It's very easily got around but it relies on Boards and Chairpeople to vote in line with their fans, which many don't.
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09 February 2018 10:19 Post ID: #778752 - in reply to #778733
56 Kevin Austen
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Luke Imp - 9/2/2018 09:05

The U21 sides are in the competition because not enough Clubs voted against.

They're not in or out depending on attendances, it's because Clubs lack the balls to vote against the likes of Shaun Harvey and the PL, whilst also going all weak at the knees for a little extra competition money.

Attendances have brought publicity to the issue, but will have no impact whatsoever on how the competition is run. There was a boycott last season - did it change the format this season? No. Why? Because Clubs voted for it.

If Clubs vote against it, it won't happen. That's the simplicity of it. It's very easily got around but it relies on Boards and Chairpeople to vote in line with their fans, which many don't.


Hence the need to put pressure on them. Strong fans' organisations can do that, either formal (Trusts, etc.) or informal (617, etc.)

It's always been the case that if ordinary people let money talk they will get screwed. Read some history if you don't believe me. It's always also been the case that if people organise together they occasionally win a victory.

Where do you think your Bank Holidays, paid holidays and paid sick-leave came from? Out of thin air? They were fought for tooth-and-nail by your working forbears and I for one never, ever forget that.

So, it can be done. And it will never be done if it isn't given a try.
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09 February 2018 10:28 Post ID: #778755 - in reply to #778451
43 Tony Lormor
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Spilsby52 - 8/2/2018 15:00

I notice a few from Vital were getting quite a lot of stick on the onefootball forum pages for the boycott (or lack of). My view is the only stakeholder in the process a Lincoln City supporters can really affect is their own club, that has happened, with Danny publicly backing no U21/B-team in the competition I'm not sure who or what else a boycott is going to influence enough to make a difference. Getting that public backing is actually a very big thing as other clubs have gone against their own supporters and still voted for it.


Mainly from three/four sets of supporters who moan about everything Lincoln anyway; Notts, Mansfield Grimsby and PGR fans. One mansfailed fan goes on constantly about the 'magnificent' 1-0 win here and how much they are than us and even referred to DC as tw@t! Bit rich considering who their manager and his previous misdemeanours.
Love the fact we are getting up other teams noses means we're doing well and the not the soft touch we always used to be, long may it continue.
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09 February 2018 12:28 Post ID: #778791 - in reply to #778369
90 Doug Graham
1000100100100100
And we all know what happened when the chairman of Accrington Stanley complained about the structure of top level football in this country...

The Premier League responded: "We will be writing to Mr Holt to ask him if he wishes the Premier League to continue the support we currently provide for his and other clubs in the EFL."
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09 February 2018 12:34 Post ID: #778792 - in reply to #778791
87 Bobby Owen
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Sincilbanks - 9/2/2018 12:28

And we all know what happened when the chairman of Accrington Stanley complained about the structure of top level football in this country...

The Premier League responded: "We will be writing to Mr Holt to ask him if he wishes the Premier League to continue the support we currently provide for his and other clubs in the EFL."


Yep, the façade slipped on that occasion and the true bully-boy colours were well and truly exposed!

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09 February 2018 15:19 Post ID: #778857 - in reply to #778791
92 Ron Harbertson
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Sincilbanks - 9/2/2018 12:28

And we all know what happened when the chairman of Accrington Stanley complained about the structure of top level football in this country...

The Premier League responded: "We will be writing to Mr Holt to ask him if he wishes the Premier League to continue the support we currently provide for his and other clubs in the EFL."


This being the Premier League that stripped their own TV deal out from the league and left us all with the ON/ITV digital deal. That promised money to all of us and left a lot of clubs facing ruin (including us) once that collapsed.
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09 February 2018 15:51 Post ID: #778862 - in reply to #778857
90 Doug Graham
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GreenNeedle - 9/2/2018 15:19

Sincilbanks - 9/2/2018 12:28

And we all know what happened when the chairman of Accrington Stanley complained about the structure of top level football in this country...

The Premier League responded: "We will be writing to Mr Holt to ask him if he wishes the Premier League to continue the support we currently provide for his and other clubs in the EFL."


This being the Premier League that stripped their own TV deal out from the league and left us all with the ON/ITV digital deal. That promised money to all of us and left a lot of clubs facing ruin (including us) once that collapsed.


Exactly, as I've repeatedly said on this subject the FA and Premiership are simply beyond redemption, there is no reasoning or arguing with them.

We can only affect what the EFL decides, and we can only do that as fans by influencing our individual clubs and making our voices heard about how we want the club to vote.

We are in the fortunate position of having money in the bank. We can afford some principles it's a bit easy for us at the moment. Other clubs are facing bankruptcy / administration on an annual basis and a big fat bribe from the premiership could be very attractive to them, those clubs are in a hugely invidious position should the premiership come knocking again with a much bigger offer...
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